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San Antonio NBC News Reports on Troubles with Nutro Pet Food

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  1. Donna Becker

    Did the consumers in these cases directly contact the company about these problems? If the company has little opportunity to determine if there’s a problem within its operations that needs to be corrected.
    In our legal system, the consumer must take the reasonable, available steps to obtain satisfaction from the company before moving to the courts. Such steps include giving the company notice of a problem, the opportunity to fully investigate the circumstances, and a request that the company fully disclose its findings.
    While I truly appreciate having this information made public, I believe we consumers tread a fine line if we don’t also make sure that all avenues of relief from suspected harm are exhausted before we go to court … even the court of public opinion.

    1. Susan Thixton Author

      Pet food companies tell everyone with a complaint “We have had no other complaints”. In the midst of the Diamond recall earlier this year, Diamond continued to respond “We have had no complaints of sick pets.” In other words, pet food manufacturers rarely fully disclose its findings.

      And this is a new incident – not from back in 2007. The story was published on the San Antonio News site on December 3, 2012.

      1. Donna Becker

        Thanks everyone for your input on my earlier comment.
        The part of this process that concerns me is that without verification of any facts, the conversation simply becomes an accusation match.
        Once that happens, legislators and the public just tune out. And nothing substantive happens.
        The pet food companies have their “talking heads” who present their perfectly-written statements with lots of implications and not much provable fact.
        And … here’s where we animal welfare advocates fall short … we allow our emotions to override reason and make strident claims that can neither be proven nor disproven.
        The more the pet food companies resist, the more shrill our voices become. And we’re the ones who ultimately lose the argument, simply because no one really wants to listen to us for long.
        Maybe we need to explore how to get our message out there in ways that the general public and legislators will hear.
        Perhaps we should engage with a well-known consumer watchdog like Consumers Union. A organization like Consumers Union could conduct independent tests, and publish the results, allowing everyone to read unbiased reports on what’s found (or not found) in pet foods. As a less biased party, the CU could work with experts to outline best manufacturing practices for pet foods that the public could trust.
        In the past couple of years, the Consumers Union began publishing verifiable information about medications and medical practices. And it’s work has stepped up the public conversation about the real effectiveness of supplements.
        I’m just thinking out loud here, but wouldn’t such a process applied to pet food give us the facts we need to have a chance of successfully pressing for legislation requiring the multi-billion-dollar pet food industry to do the right thing?
        It’s late, and I’m probably beginning to lose my concentration, so thanks for listening.
        I’d be really interested in hearing what ideas came to your minds as you’ve thought more about ways to solve our dilemma.

        1. Shelley

          Have you seen the consumers website complaints about Nutro dog food? There are many, many surprisingly similar stories about sick and dead dogs with the same or similar symptoms!

        2. Linda Davis

          Here it is, a new day and I have gone on many web sights and read a lot of information, which still leaves my head in a spin! One site talked of killing baby calves, almost newborns, for dog food because it was easily digested! Plus, they are coming up with numerous ‘new and different’ animals to kill for food! I have a problem with that! My gut literally wrenched at this! I love my pets, but I do still try to respect other animals! As I am not comfortable with these concepts for feeding, I guess this is not the site for me. I will find another way! Some animals are destined to give their lives for food and I accept that. I do not however, accept that they need to suffer first (issues on slaughter houses) or that they need to be babies! I would not let my dog, if he was so inclined, to go after a young anything, why would I want to agree with the humans that do that! (Veal) At this point I am in agreement with Donna about getting the pet food people to step up and do what’s best for the animals and not their pockets! I hope whatever I end up doing, will serve my pets well and still keep the rights of other animals as important! If my dog was to live in the wild, and he did what he had to do to survive, that would be considered Nature, but if I’m doing the hunting for him, then I can choose the more humane way of obtaining his food!

          1. Shelley

            Linda I agree with everything that you have said! Kudos to you for doing the research and being informed. Your pets are lucky to have you for a Momma!

      2. Candy Marshall


        For whatever the ridiculous reason, canine “nutritionists” are telling these manufacturers that synthetic vitaminK3 is not only safe, but good for your pets. Not only is this BS, but ALWAYS a synthetic (for humans or animsls) will cause side effects. Another name for vitaminK3 is menadione is known to cause liver toxicity, allergies, abnormal break down of red blood cells. I do know that Texas brand Muenster dog/cat foods used to put this in theirs, but no longer. Toooo many complaints about the ingredient itself. Muenster Natural isn’t a very good food to me, BUT their Elite 24-18 (dogs) is grain free, has DE and garlic! Those two would be a huge selling point for me. Now, if I just had a dog instead of a cat..

    2. Chico Alvarez

      The pet food companies would not admit to anyone if their product was tested and found harmful or deadly. If they are basically policing themselves then they certainly would not implicate their own company. That would mean going out of business.

  2. Jan Thydean

    I have to agree with Donna Becker. This is also “old news” dating back to the recall of 2007. I appreciate all that Susan does to make the public aware of what is going on in the pet food industry but feel it was irresponsible to post this as “news”.

    1. Peter

      It is news because it is being reported as such, not as an incident from the 2007 recalls. There is an extended statement from Nutro captioned within the article, in which the company, as expected, insists that it’s products are “safe,” and that is what virtually every manufacturer insists. Businesses that truly did place the consumers pet as a “highest priority” wouldn’t source ingredients from where they do, would disclose ingredients and where they come from, wouldn’t mislabel products, nor formulate foods using “least cost mix” protocols.

  3. Karen D

    About 6 months ago I bought two bags of Nutro dog food for my dogs. They both started vomiting. I contacted the company (Nutro) and they said they hadn’t received any complaints. I brought back the food to Petsmart and they exchanged it with a Blue Buffalo grain free which my dogs have been healthy with. Petsmart said they didn’t know if complaints had been made about the Nutro food.

    1. jeanne nai

      I had used Nutro for 2 years without any problems, but recently changed to Blue Buffalo, as it seems to be the food of choice by most consumers.

  4. Bonnie Carollin

    BS- it killed the love of my life the day the pet food recall was
    Made public back in 07- I have NEVER forgiven them- and wouldn’t give them a dime more business.

    I hate pet food companies.

  5. Concerned

    Did the lady have autopsies done on both of her dogs? Unless she did, and it was definitively determined that the food was the cause of death (assuming that not one other thing went into the dogs’ mouths, which is highly unlikely considering the age and weight of these dogs), she cannot make the claims as she is. The website she refers to is, at best, irresponsible and sketchy. Any person can post anything on it with no need for confirmation or proof. I absolutely appreciate what Susan does for us pet owners; however, I agree with Jan in that without some sort of substantiation and investigation, this story never should have made to her website and into the email boxes of thousands. Imagine if every individual’s complaint was given this press. It’s the substantiated and investigated issues that I appreciate hearing about to allow me to be better equipped when feeding my pets. To Karen, at least Nutro makes their own food in their own facilities and doesn’t copack for anyone else. Blue on the other hand owns no facility, rather using nearly a dozen different copackers. Tell me who has more quality control of what’s put in their bags.

  6. w.stefanik

    If I am willing to pay $3.50-$5.00/lb for dog/cat food, don’t you think the company making it could do it right? Owners who spend big money on higher priced food because it’s supposed to be good and safe for their animals are being taken to the cleaners everyday. Make you own pet food people and sleep well at night.

    1. carla

      they get your money whether they give you a good product or not. You think it’s good because you paid a lot of money for it.

  7. Joseph Barnett

    Nutro is owned by the Mars candy company. Mars has owned it for several years now, and Mars candy,Inc. test on animals! I stopped buying Nutro when I found this out and of course also boycott Mars candies.

    1. Jan Thydean

      I am just curious…in what area would a candy company test on animals? Science Diet is owned by Colgate Palmolive a chemical company, Iams-Eukanuba is owned by Proctor and Gamble a chemical company….there I can certain see a call for animal testing (though I don’t like it either). But really not a candy company.

    2. Jan Thydean

      Nutro (Mars) does taste testing only…putting food in front of the animals and testing their poop is all. There just doesn’t seem to be any need, in pet food, for the animal testing that we hear the horror stories about. Better to “boycott” if you must the Proctor and Gamble products since they have been long known for the cruel stuff.

      1. Joseph Barnett

        Mars’ Heartless Animal Experiments
        Not one of Mars’ experiments on animals is required by law. Even so, Mars has paid experimenters to kill untold numbers of animals in tests:

        Mars recently funded an experiment on rats at the University of California, San Francisco, to determine the effect of chocolate ingredients on the animals’ blood vessels, even though the experimenter admitted that studies have already been done using humans. Experimenters force-fed the rats by shoving plastic tubes down their throats and then cut open the rats’ legs to expose an artery, which was clamped shut to block blood flow. After the experiment, the animals were killed.
        Mars funded a deadly experiment on mice that was published in a 2007 issue of the Journal of Neuroscience in which mice were fed flavanols (phytochemicals that are found in chocolate) and forced to swim in a pool of water mixed with white paint to hide a submerged platform, which the mice had to find in order to avoid drowning, only to be killed and dissected later on.
        In one experiment supported by Mars and conducted by the current Mars, Inc., endowed chair in developmental nutrition at the University of California, Davis, rats were fed cocoa and anesthesized with carbon dioxide so that blood could be collected by a needle injected directly into the heart—a procedure criticized by U.S. Department of Agriculture researcher Dr. William T. Golde, who notes: “This is not a simple method. … Missing the heart or passing the needle completely through the heart could lead to undetected internal bleeding or other complications.”
        Mars supported a cruel experiment to learn how a chocolate ingredient called PQQ affects metabolism by cramming baby mice into 200-milliliter Plexiglas metabolic chambers—around half the size of a 12-ounce soda can—and then submerging the chamber for nearly five hours in a chilled water bath, inducing labored breathing in the distressed mice. Experimenters then shoved tubes down the mice’s throats every day for 10 days to force-feed them the PQQ, after which they were killed and cut up for analysis.
        Mars funded a test in which experimenters forced rabbits to eat a high-cholesterol diet with varying amounts of cocoa, then cut out and examined tissue from the rabbits’ primary blood vessel to the heart to determine the effect of cocoa on rabbits’ muscle tissue.
        Mars supported a test in which experimenters attached plastic tubes to arteries in guinea pigs’ necks and injected cocoa ingredients into their jugular veins to examine the effect of cocoa ingredients on their blood pressure.

        1. Linda Davis

          Are these people all sadists? Why would you need to know what chocolate would do? It has no food value and is not needed in the first place. Money being spent just so these people can say they have a job torturing these poor critters! If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it a hundred times, there are enough evil people out there that these, so called experiments can be tested on, they don’t need to use animals! Even at that, an experiment should have some value, not the kind of crap that they are doing it for now! Sickening!

        2. Concerned

          Can you please quote your sources so I can research this for myself?

        3. Concerned

          Joseph, still waiting on those sources to be quoted regarding all the testing you say Mars does. Thanks.

          1. Chico Alvarez

            Watch the youtube videos of undercover hidden camera surveillance footage of pet food companies and/ or their parent companies experimenting on animals.

  8. Chico Alvarez

    Dogs and cats have been domesticated for 3000 years. What did people feed to their pets for 30 centuries before pet food was invented? Not Nutro and not any other processed foods. People who have no access to processed pet foods still feed their dogs raw diets, parts of the wild animals they subsist on, leftovers, real, natural, unprocessed, whole, common sense foods.

  9. Kim

    I also lost my cat (Sumo) to what we believe was caused from Nutro food. After he passed, we were devastated. We had a necropsy done, and also had the food tested at Mid West Labs. The food test results came back HIGH in several things. One of those things was Zinc. It had 203 PPM. The EU recommended max is 150 PPM. The AAFCO really needs to re-evaluate their recommendations.
    Looking back after Sumo’s death, there were other signs that the food was not right. Examples: He vomited regularly, but our vet said that was normal. Shame on me for believing that. The kibble looked and smelled differently sometimes. And one bag Sumo actually rejected. He ate a little bit, started vomiting shortly after, then wouldn’t touch it at all.
    Hindsight is 20/20. I will always live with guilt over this.

    At the time, I contacted Consumer Affairs. I never did contact Nutro directly, mainly because I was not in the right frame of mind, knowing they would (more than likely) blow me off.

    Never again. Now my new little guy (Yoshi) eats only Nature’s Logic canned food. Guess what? He never vomits, so I guess regular vomitting is NOT normal. We have a new vet now, too.

    Lesson learned.

    1. Chico Alvarez

      To be safe, just feed your pet a homemade raw diet. With all this talk about GMO foods for humans, is it safe or not safe, organic foods vs non-organic foods, just be safe and don’t eat GMO foods. People are now growing their own foods and raising their your own chickens. Now we have to apply the same logic to our pets. Common sense tells us what carnivores eat in the wild. They don’t eat canned or cooked or dry foods or grain. Or oats or potatoes. Just try to replicate a pet’s diet to reasonably duplicate a diet of their wild relatives. It’s not rocket surgery. I’m not saying raise your own chickens if you want to feed your cat or dog a raw diet made with chicken. Go ahead and buy raw chicken and mix that with supplements and vitamins and minerals. Don’t take my advice, but consult a certified animal nutritionist, but not a veterinarian. And don’t take advice from pet store managers or employees, or from processed pet food corporation employees. They get paid to sell and recommend processed pet foods. When people and their opposing views get involved it becomes POLITICAL. Don’t let politics take precedent over common sense and thinking for ourselves. Don’t wait around or rely on politicians or consumer advocate groups to come to our rescue. Do for ourselves. Common sense is called common sense because every human is born with it. It’s what makes us human. It’s a universal code of to guide us to the obviously correct decision. It’s not about Nutra is bad but Science Diet is good. It’s not brand vs brand. It’s…..”Does this diet resemble, duplicate, or replicate the diet of this animal’s wild relatives? To say that a cooked/canned/dry/grain-based (processed)diet is the correct diet for domestic carnivores is like saying that what wild carnivores eat is the incorrect diet for them. We need to do more for ourselves instead of needing the government, pet food industry, veterinarians, “experts”, and consumer advocates group to hold our hands and say, “Here is the absolute PERFECT (processed)pet food ever. Feed this to your dog or cat”.
      Consult with someone who has successfully raised multiple generations of cats and dogs on raw diets. Train yourself. Learn about it. Make the extra effort to feed raw. Vets bills, teeth cleaning, allergy treatments, cancer surgery, etc. etc. etc. is way more expensive than a raw diet.

      1. Chico Alvarez

        With a raw diet, you will know where your pet’s food came from, what it’s made from and that it is safe.

        1. Concerned

          You will not know exactly what your pet is eating unless you raise it yourself and raise or grow the food that that animal is going to eat until it is slaughtered. How many people are able and willing to do that? I would venture to bet that there is a very small percentage. All fine and dandy for people to want to feed a raw diet, but how many people raise their own animals to slaughter let alone even have ever stepped on a farm? As long as we keep animals, we have to trust someone at some point. People talk about what dogs eat in the wild-our dogs are not in the wild and haven’t been for centuries. Most dogs these days wouldn’t know how to hunt for their meals and certainly wouldn’t know how to kill and consume their catch. At least if you feed raw, raise it yourself or buy from a local farmer that practices humane and healthy raising (although they still have to rely on commercial feed of some sort to feed their animals) because that’s the ONLY way you can know what’s going into the mouth of your beloved pet.

          1. Chico Alvarez

            I didn’t say raise your own meat and vegetables to feed to pets. I *thought* I made myself clear the first time. Did you read only part of my previous post? The point in mentioning that a lot of people are raising their own chickens and vegetables is because they want to know that what they are eating is healthy and to know where it comes from and what it’s made with. The same PHILOSOPHY applies to feeding pets. Make your own diet from for pets with ingredients that you buy yourself instead of blindly trusting pet food companies to make safe commercial food. This latest problem with Nutra is just one example of that. I did say to go ahead and purchase raw meat and mix it with vitamins and minerals to make a balanced diet. I also said to consult with certified animal nutritionist and to not take my advice. I also said to consult with someone who has raised multiple generations of cats on raw diets. Such a person would be Celeste Yarnall, who posted this article on her FB page. Pat McKay is another advocate of make your own raw diets for pets.

          2. Concerned

            And I was saying that that by buying meat, you are putting that same trust into someone you don’t know as the trust you are putting into a pet food company that makes kibble. The ONLY way you know what you’re feeding your pet is if you raise it yourself AND raise and grow the food that will be fed to the to be slaughtered animal. Point being that as long as we have pets, we HAVE TO TRUST SOME ONE AT SOME POINT. I have chickens, ducks, and geese. I use no chemicals on my property and they range 12 acres and eat all the natural stuff they want. But, like the majority of the country, our area would not be conducive to growing the feed needed to feed those birds so I must do my research best I can and choose the company I trust most to make their food. Now, I know what those birds eat on my property, but I can’t guarantee what’s in their feed, therefore I can’t guarantee what my pets are eating as a result. If you feed raw, have you been to the farm that raises the meat you’re feeding? For most people, thats highly unlikely so they cannot guarantee what their pets are eating because they don’t know what the animals are being fed or how they’re being treated. We can try to do what’s best for our pets, but we must trust someone at some point. There are good people out there as well as good companies. Believe they’re all bad and we quite possibly may be short changing our pets.

          3. Shelley

            Example. My boy is fed boiled boneless chicken, rice (brown or white) mixed with olive oil and a sprinkle of iodized salt, chunky applesauce and peas and carrots. He is also given a calcuim and vitamin D supplement every “other” day along with his cosiquin for his joints.
            Twice a month I make 14 batches and make indiviual portions and freeze them in ziplock bags. Yes, some people think I’m crazy…but I don’t care! My boy is seen by the vet for his check-ups yearly and barely for anything else.
            I’ve had dogs all my life and this boys quility of life is better than all the rest because I have started to do this for him.

          4. Chico Alvarez

            Wild and domestic are states of mind. It’s not where an animal lives or who raises it that determines its nutritional needs. It’s still a dog. It’s still a cat. Either raised in a litter of a wild cat mom or in a wolf pack by a wild wolf mom, or raised by humans in a house, there nutritional needs do not do vary depending on where they live or what species raises them. Take a litter of tabbies and put them in a litter of wild bobcats, those “domestic” kittens will be wild and have the same nutritional needs as their bobcat relatives. If you had a cabin in the woods and found a litter of bobcats, took some of them home to be raised by a domestic cat mom, those bobcats would have the same nutritional needs as their wild littermates. They wouldn’t have different food requirements just because they were weaned and raised within the walls of a cabin and were used to humans handling them.

          5. Concerned

            The nutritional requirements DO vary depending on where or how a dog is raised. A working herding dog varies from a dog living in the heat of Florida varies from the couch potato dog varies from the Alaskan sledding dog, etc. and nutritional requirements vary extremely from breed to breed. I’ll give you that cats have evolved very little. Dogs on the other hand have evolved enormously! There are very few breeds today that mirror their wild counterparts-internally or externally. Humans and animals evolve to adapt to their environment and each individuals’ nutritional needs are different depending on their environment.

          6. Chico Alvarez

            They all need a raw diet.

          7. Concerned

            A very broad and dangerous generalization.

          8. Chico Alvarez

            Are cats carnivores? Yes. Are dogs carnivores? Yes. What is a carnivore? Look it up yourself. How can feeding domestic carnivores be dangerous? Just take common sense precautions to avoid bacterial contamination from raw meat. The bacteria can be killed by soaking the raw meat in water with a few drops of grapefruit seed extract for a about 20-30 minutes. Celeste Yarnall has been doing it for years. I’ve weaned and raised 3 generations of cats, all related, on a raw diet, but I never used grapefruit seed extract diluted in water to kill the bacteria in the meat. Cats and dogs also naturally produce hydrochloric acid in their stomachs to break down bone and cartilage and neutralize bacteria. God knew what was doing when he created these creatures. None of my cats EVER got sick from it. They ate raw starting at 6 weeks of age. They never got sick from anything. To say that feeding raw meat to an animal that is raised by humans (“domestic”, which is just a state of mind, anyway) just because it was raised by humans, is “dangerous” is a broad generalization itself. What did cats and dogs eat for 30 centuries before commercial pet food was invented? The only people against raw diets are veterinarians who “don’t recommend it” for fear of a lawsuit, pet food company employees, pet food company public relation personnel, pet store employees whose job it is to sell the commercial pet foods on their shelves, and the average citizen who is paranoid about what “might” happen if they feed their domestic carnivore (cat, dog, other carnivores) a raw diet. Should snakes raised and handled by humans stop eating mice, rats, fish and other live prey because the snake is “domestic”? I’m not saying cats and dogs should be fed live prey. What I mean is that snake owners feed their snakes a raw diet because the snake is a carnivore and has the same requirements as its wild relatives. Should lions and tigers in circuses stop eating a raw meat diet because there were raised and handled and ahve been around humans their entire lives? Should carnivores in zoos not eat a raw diet because they weren’t raised in the wilderness, but were raised by humans in a zoo? Some zoo animals were orphans that were abandoned by their mothers. Zoo employees hand- raise those infant animals, and when they are old enough they go on exhibit in the zoo. Should those particular animals, that are carnivores, not be weaned on or eat a raw diet because they were raised by human surrogate parents? As pet owners, we are human surrogate parents. But a dog is still a dog and still a carnivore. A cat is still a cat and still a carnivore. How many cats or dogs, wild or domestic, raise wheat, corn, or other grain, then kill a wild herbivore, cook the grain and meat together and then eat it? How many wolves has anyone ever seen raid a cornfield? How many African wild cats, the ancestor of “domestic” cats, has anyone seen cooking their prey over a campfire, gathering wild grains or roots for starch, mix them together, put it all in a bag or a can, store it on a shelf for up to a year, and then eat it? at together, and then eat it? Are wild carnivores lacking energy because no one humans are feeding them “carbs for energy”? Why does your cat stalk birds and mice and not stalk grains? Because their instincts guide them to what they NEED, and that is MEAT, RAW MEAT. Why does your cat eat that mouse or bird and not cook it first and then eat it? Because it’s a cat. Their teeth, bodies, digestive system, the hydrochloric acid in their stomachs to break down bones and neutralize bacteria, everything about their morphology and biology is made for eating the flesh of herbivores. It’s not rocket surgery. People need to stop believing the pet food industry spiel, lies, misleading ads and propaganda and think for themselves and feed a raw diet to their cats and dogs. Stop being sheeple.

          9. Concerned

            Chico, I am ending my part of this conversation today as I am not going to argue things with you that are not facts. Not once have I said feed your dog a kibble or don’t feed your dog raw. I have said that whatever you feed your dog, research where it comes from, how it is made, and/or how it was raised. It’s about each individual taking responsibility for what they offer as their pet’s meal. To bash every person in the pet food industry sounds like paranoia. There are good people and companies out there that do want what’s best for everyone’s pets. Where is your raw meat coming from? Who raised it? What were they fed and by what company? Driving the point home for the last time that you have to trust someone at some point. Unless that is that you’re going to tell me that you raise your own animals to slaughter and grow the food that they are raised on? Doubtful.
            Cats are obligate carnivores. Dogs are not. They have different digestive tracts and therefore are able to digest a wider variety of foods. They have evolved to eat a variety of things. Comparing today’s dog with that of those 3,000 years ago is ridiculous. A lot of evolution has taken place in that time and they are no longer the same. Proof can be offered for evolution, not that a God created something. Also ridiculous is comparing a dog to a snake?! Really? The wild animals that are kept by zoos to those domesticated animals that we keep in our home?! Let’s not by pass the fact that when a wild animal catches its prey, they don’t pick and choose which parts they’re eating, rather they consume all edible parts. That includes anything that the prey has eaten which includes non animal sources.
            Gosh, I could go on, but I’m sure it’s to no avail Chico. Last point is stop the conspiracy theories, each person make the best choice for their pet/s whether it’s raw or otherwise. People don’t need other people telling them what they should feed their pet. There is not one answer for every pet. Good, REASEARCHED, PROVEN, advice is appreciated by all-misguided, unproven theories are not.

          10. Chico Alvarez

            The kibble that you speak of, such as that made by Nutro, killed two dogs. This is not the first time that commercial pet foods have killed pets. It’s happened a lot recently. Why keep taking the chance on feeding commercial dog foods that have killed pets? I mentioned Celeste Yarnall, because she is the only person I know of who has successfully raised generation after generation of raw diets for cats. There are others, but you can do your own research, if you choose. Contact her yourself and ask if any of her cats have ever died from the diet she prepares for them. Compare her answer to the number of pets that have been fed from eating kibble/dry/canned, (commercial foods) that have died from it. Do your own research. You and others may want to keep taking chances with feeding commercial foods, (you know, the kind that have killed numerous pets in recent years. Remember?), but that is your prerogative. Go ahead and out your pets at risk. People KEEP trusting commercial pet foods. This latest incident Nutro is the result, for that pet owner at least, of people continuing to put their faith in commercial pet foods. To each his own. Whatever. If people purchase for themselves meat from a deli or grocery store to take home to cook and eat, then it only makes sense that the same meat can be left uncooked, mixed with the necessary supplements to make it nutritionally complete, and fed to cats and dogs. I didn’t say never trust anyone about any type of raw meat or the supplements to mix with the raw meat to feed to pets. I said people should stop trusting commercial pet foods. Why take the chance with the life of an innocent creature who cannot choose for himself? Some people may want to do that, but we all have to make our own decisions. People need to separate their pride ( they don’t like to told what to do or that commercial foods may harm or kill their pets) from their pets’ welfare. Some people want to keep taking chances with commercial foods and some people do not want to keep talking chances with commercial foods. How many pets have to die before more people stop trusting commercial foods and, with help from those more experienced, start formulating their own, either home-cooked or raw, feed pets a home-made diet. Even a home COOKED diet is better than commercial foods. Commercial foods have already proven themselves. You can connect the dots for yourself.

            Dogs are carnivores. What do you think Arctic wolves eat? Not any significant amount of vegetation. It doesn’t exist on the Tundra. What about any wolf in the northern hemisphere? What do they eat in winter? The plants are under feet of snow. Wolves not not hibernate like bears or squirrels. They have to eat something. Wolves in hotter climates? Well, since it’s a warmer climate more animals are active year round, giving wolves more choices of prey to eat. Contact any wolf expert or researching who has years of field experience. Ask them what wolves eat. Has anyone ever seen wolves grazing like their prey? Doubtful. Dogs did not evolve. The numerous MAN MADE breeds, genetically manipulated by humans is not evolution. It’s selective breeding and inbreeding that have produced MOST of today’s breeds. Having a small gene pool is one of the reasons why so many domestic breeds have so many genetic health problems. Feeding them food they were not designed for only adds to the problem.

            You agree that cats are carnivores. They’d still be carnivores even if you didn’t agree and if neither of us had ever been born. But kibble is made from grains. Grains are not part of the diet of any carnivore. Do lions or bobcats have farms of grain? No. Why would anyone think that grain is correct for carnivores? It’s ludicrous. Grains cause kidney stones, plaque on the teeth, diabetes on older, less active cats and skin allergies.

            Evolution is a myth. Even Darwin himself said it was only a theory. There is no proof. I suggest a book for you to read called TORNADO IN A JUNKYARD THE RELENTLESS MYTH OF DARWINISM, by author JAMES PERLOFF In. the fossil record there are no transitional animals found. They appear as if they were already made, with no “in between” skeletons or fossils ever found. Even Jack Horner, the paleontologist, who believes in evolution, admits in his book, How To Build a Dinosaur, that he has never found any species in transition from one type of animal into another. And none of his colleagues have found anything like that either. No one was around “millions of years ago” and cannot say evolution is true. SOME evolutionists, (not all) say God doesn’t exist, people who believe in God are silly, There is no proof of Him. But believers believe on Faith. But guess what, believing in evolution also relies on faith because the evolution community says such and such happened millions of years ago, this animal changed into a new animal over eons of time, blah blah blah. They say it, but to believe it is also based on faith because no one alive today, or since Darwin’s time, was alive that long ago. There is ZERO proof. Bears supposedly evolved the ability to hibernate. How, then, did bears survive winters before they began hibernating? If evolution takes as long as the evolution community says it takes, then all bears in northern climates would’ve died off, for lack of food, before winter was over and long before hibernating “evolved”. And if a bear, whose diet is 90 percent vegetation, a true omnivore, cannot survive winter because there is lack of food, then how can wolves survive winters if they have to rely on plant foods, which they would have to do if they really are omnivores? Bears and wolves share the same environment. Wolves would’ve also “evolved” the need and ability to hibernate, but they didn’t. That’s because wolves eat herbivores during winter just like they eat herbivores all year long. Because they are carnivores. Oh ,gee but you say that anything the prey eats the carnivore who eats the prey also eat what is in the prey’s stomach. What percentage of plant matter in a prey’s stomach is their compared to the rest of the animal that is flesh and bone ? A very small percentage. It doesn’t make a wolf, or ANY “domestic” dog an omnivore. Wolves and dogs are 99 percent genetically identical. Scientists cannot tell wolf dna from Labrador dna from Great dane dna from poodle dna. In fact a wolf is a species of wild DOG.

            You say a lot of evolution has taken place on the 3000 years since wolves were domesticated into dogs. Evolution by what species? Wild wolves or domestic dogs? Selective breeding of dogs by humans is not the same as evolution. It’s the malleable genetic potential in the wolf dna. Evolution is a natural process, anyway. Artificial breeding by man is not the same as evolution. All domestic dogs are the same species and can interbreed with each other and can breed with all species of wild dog (wolf, jackal, coyote, dhole, dingo) If “evolution produces new species”, then why aren’t different breeds different species? They aren’t. They are varieties. Or has a lot of evolution taken place in 3000 years among wolves? There were wolves around 3000 years ago, and there are still wolves around today. They haven’t evolved into a new species. Wolves have not changed in that period of time. But the spiel is “Evolution takes millions of years”. How could evolution possibly have happened in so short a time as only 3000 years? Evolution is an unproven theory, as well. Ask anyone in the evolution community to prove it.

            I don’t need or expect a response from you. Just think about what I’ve said. Do you own research. Contact the people I’ve mentioned. Read the books I recommended. Just for the possibility that what I say is true. Unless pride gets in the way. You decide. P.S None of this meant as a personal attack. This concludes are debate. No more will I respond to you, either. It’s been fun. Have a nice day.

        2. jeanne nai

          With raw food, I would be concerned about contaminants and disease like humans get from undercooked meats.

          1. Chico Alvarez

            Celeste Yarnall has raised and weaned numerous generations of cats on raw diets. There are ways to transition a pet from cooked foods to raw foods without getting the pet sick. She can tell you how. Look into it. Google her name. What did cats eat for 3000 years before commercial pet food was invented? You can make your own and take the necessary precautions to prevent salmonella getting your pet sick, like using grapefruit seed extract to kill the bacteria in meat before offering to the pet. Or you can keep trusting commercial pet foods harming or killing your pet like this latest incidents with Nutro food. You decide. How many commercial pet foods have been recalled because of sick or dead pets eating those foods? Ask Celeste Yarnall if any of her cats have gotten sick or died from the raw diet she feeds to them. I and myself weaned and raised 3 generations of cats on raw diets and they never got sick from the food or from anything else.

      2. Shelley

        I completly agree. Since the recalls many years ago I started making homemade food for my Springer Spaniel. He is thriving and people stop me on the street to tell me how beautiful he is. When I tell them that he is 10 going on 11 years old no one belives me. There is no other way because unless you make it yourself you have no clue what is going into their food.

        1. Chico Alvarez

          You are the only person out of numerous replies that I’ve received who actually agrees with me. It’s true what they say. Common sense is not very common.

          1. Shelley

            Thanks Chico! But I think most people Love their animals but will not take the time to make their food. Lazy??? Maybe, but assuring that your child (or your pet)is safe should be the top priority. It’s our responsibility.

        2. Linda Davis

          What exactly do you feed them? I tried giving my German Shepard just cooked chicken and he had the runs for a couple of days! I hope you can be specific about what you feed them. He turns his nose up at most canned food, which is why I fed him Natural Balance lamb and rice roll with his kibble. Head in a whirl as to what is right and what is wrong!

          1. jeanne nai

            I cook ground turkey with oatmeal, carrots, green beans, and sometimes lentils or other veggies, or cooked chicken. Brown rice is also good for bulk. I do usually use a small bit of dry kibble, and recently switched to Blue Buffalo. I had been using Nutro with no problems for 2 years before that with no problems.

          2. Shelley

            Linda! Example of what I feed my dog is posted by a reply to Chico.

          3. Linda Davis

            Okay! Thanks. Now I just have to get the cats food and I should be good to go!

  10. Linda Davis

    Right now my 9 year old dog is on Nutro senior, kibble and Natural Balance, lamb and rice roll. He eats it, but is not excited about eating. I see food as fuel and a pleasure to eat. I enjoy eating. It bothers me that he doesn’t seem to have this and I’m concerned if this diet is the best for him. As well, I have a 16 year old cat who absolutely will not eat anything but Fancy Feast wet food and preferably the gravy mix type. I have bought what is suppose to be better food, but she just leaves it until it goes bad! Kibble is also out! I’m worried about her diet, but can’t let her go without eating! I have tried waiting it out, but she just keeps meowing! At a loss for what do to, to be sure they are getting what they need to stay healthy!

    1. Jan

      I agree that our pets should eat with joy but it is really hard to make a senior animal happy sometimes. Senior dogs and cats begin to lose their sense of taste and smell and their biting pressures are not as great as when younger. btw, Natural Balance rolls contain sugar and I am never thrilled with putting that in my pets. and a small percentage of dogs do not like the smell of lamb. Maybe a canned food that does not contain any lamb might help. and sometimes warming it up pleases them too. Animals want their food to be warm….body temp preferably. Maybe warm up some no sodium chicken or veggie broth and pour over….just a couple of ideas. No microwaving as that can make hot spots and heats unevenly, warm the broth and pour over.

      1. Linda Davis

        He won’t eat canned food. He leaves it until it gets dry and hard. That’s why I put him on the rolled food. I thought Natural Balance was good! I tried giving him cooked chicken with the kibble and he had the runs for two days. I’m not a big meat eater, but some times I cook a beef or pork roast and mix that with his kibble and that seems to go okay. Now, if I don’t feed kibble, how will I know that he’s getting what he needs to stay healthy? I really don’t know exactly what dogs need!

  11. Shelley

    My daughters Maltese almost died from eating Nutro dry food. My friends’ elderly dog did die from this food. This company will not admit to anything unless someone from the authorities steps in and does something! How many babies are going to get sick ad die from this company???

    1. Chico Alvarez

      Stop relying on commercial pet foods. Feed raw. Make your own pet diet. Too many pets have died from commercial pet foods. It’s time we did more for ourselves and our pets. Be independent from pet food companies and simply make your own raw diet. But consult with people who already have been feeding raw for years.

      1. Shelley

        Chico, I have been feeding my boy homemade food and he is doing great! It is my family and friends that need to realize that these commercial dog food companies don’t care about our animals and will put anything into the food to make money. It has taken almost losing the dog to make family members and friends realize they need to commit to homemade food. Or at least a premium “pure” food. Worrying about your budget??? I find it cheaper to make it myself. Twice a month I make 14 batches and use Ziploc freezer bags to freeze the portions.

    2. Linda Davis

      Is this an isolated issue in Texas? Are you positive it was the food that caused the death of these dogs? We have had several dogs on Nutro food for a while and there doesn’t seem to be a problem! I don’t want to jump out of the frying pan and into the fire, if there is a chance that something else was the reason for these unfortunate deaths! I love my dog and wouldn’t want to do him any harm! Making his food at home would be fine, but I don’t know everything they need to stay healthy. This all could get very complicated!

      1. Shelley

        Linda! One dog is in NY and the other dog was in NJ, so it is NOT an isolated case. Yes! It is the food. Look on the consumer affairs complaint site under Nutro and read the complaints (almost 2000 of them!), it doesn’t take a genius to know that all of the symptoms are the same/similar! It IS the food. Do your animal a favor and get him off the Nutro. It happens very gradually. Proof yes…

        1. Concerned

          Consumers affair website allows anything and everything to be posted on its website. No proof or even close to it needs to be provided. My dog had loose stool today. Guess what?! Other things go into his mouth besides what I give him. Maybe it was hot today, maybe he drank too much water, so on and so on. Babysit him I do, but I don’t put my dog on a chain to keep him from doing things dogs do. But how about I blame it on his food and post it on an unsubstantiated website instead on contacting the company and taking my dog to the vet to confirm my suspicions? I guarantee you if you read all of those “2000” complaints, you could count on one hand (if that) the people that actually took their dog/cat to the vet and the vet did tests/autopsies that definitively determined that culprit of the issue was the food in question. It’s hard to believe that people are so naive and gullible as to believe everything they read posted on the Internet. If someone posted that the sky fell on their dog, would you believe it just because it was on the Internet? Sounds silly, but this is exactly what happens on a daily basis regarding many food companies.

          1. Jan

            thanks “Concerned” finally a voice of reason. You are right that too many people think the Consumer Affairs site is gospel. I totally agree with you.

  12. Shelley

    Jan and Concerned, I never said that consumer affairs site was gospel. All I said was to look at all of the complaints about the same food with the same complaints from various people from all over the country. Why so defensive? It’s funny how you would think that all of these non-related people would want to start a conspiracy against one company….NOT! Use your head people. Information is a good thing. People are smart and can figure out the writing on the wall when all info is presented. The FDA is the place to log your complaints. About calling the company? You can do it BUT if the bottom line of any pet food company is on the line they will do nothing to help unless the proper athorities are involved. All I am saying is to take responsibility for your pets diet and DO NOT rely on the commercial pet food companies to protect you. The are only concerned with their pockets.

  13. Chico Alvarez

    Or pets owners can continue feeding Nutro or any of the numerous other brands of commercial pet foods that have made pets sick and/ or killed them.

    The “new” pet food brands and just a different name thought up by the same companies whose pets food were recalled after making pets sick or dead.

    1. Concerned

      Conspiracy theory! How about the millions and millions and millions of pets that eat kibble or can food every day and live long, healthy lives?!

      1. Chico Alvarez

        It’s not a conspiracy theory that Nutro pet food killed a woman’s two dogs. It’s a fact. It’s not a conspiracy theory that a lot of commercial pet foods in the recent years have mad pets sick or dead. It’s a fact. It’s not a conspiracy theory that the pet foods that have made pets sick or dead have been recalled. It’s a fact.

        1. Concerned

          Please read your comment that I replied to before you reply back so you know what I was commenting on. And this woman’s dogs that died have NOT been connected to Nutro pet food by anything more than an accusation, which is a far cry from proof. Blame the pet food company when there is proof, until then all it is is accusations. You can’t convict someone on that.

          1. Chico Alvarez

            Her dogs ate Nutro dog food. Her dogs died after eating Nutro dog food. End of story. A lot of dog food has been recalled because it made pets sick or dead. It doesn’t take a scholar or a scientist to connect the dots. Just because it wasn’t proven in a court of law, beyond a reasonable doubt, doesn’t mean Nutro did not kill her pets.

  14. jeanne nai

    OK…if you really want to see what goes into your pet’s kibble, check out “West Coast Rendering Co.’s” website. I’m not saying ALL Pet food company’s use this practice, but do we know which ones do for sure??? Years back, a rescue foster told me about this, and I thought she was crazy, but it there in black and white on this website..check out the video! And this in NOT China, people, it is California, USA! And who knows where else!

  15. URL

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  16. carla

    How can anyone NOT believe pet foods are the reason our pets are sick and dying from diabetes, hypertension, cancer, etc.? Diseased animals, old animals, offal, fats, skin, grains- and now peas, tomatoes and carrots, etc., all the chemicals used to create meat animals (no they are not “raised” they are created and tortured until they are killed) end up in pet food!
    I had three cats at the same time- all fed Fancy Feast. One died from liver cancer, one from megacolon, and the third had inflammatory bowel disease and died from oral squamous cell carcinoma.
    You BET pet foods are killing our animals. And these SOBs get away with it. It doesn’t matter if it’s ten cents a can or ten dollars a can, it’s all GARBAGE.

  17. Sandy

    I switched to Nutro over 2 weeks ago. After only a couple of days, my dog started vomiting, then diarrhea and he ended up being badly constipated. Emergency visit to the vet. Blood test. Diagnostic: liver infection. He’s been on antibiotics for a few days but it’s not helping. He has spasms, every 3 seconds. I can only watch him suffer. Feeling helpless and I can’t even afford another visit to the vet. If things don’t get better (of course I changed his diet!) then I will have to face the fact that this crap “food” is slowly killing my dog.

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